Cardinal Pell, Archbishop of Sydney is known for several of his politically incorrect views- especially on Islam. While some sectors of all the major faiths are falling over each other to get into the door of inter-faith dialogue (read Muslim Monologue) Pell put a note of reason into the conversation some years ago by saying he could not read the Koran. An ABC commentator wrote:Cardinal Pell says the Koran is riddled with so many invocations to violence that after about 50 or 60 or 70 pages, he stopped taking notes of them. He also says that considered strictly on its own terms, Islam is not a tolerant religion and its capacity for far-reaching renovation is severely limited. He points to the difficulty that scholars and commentators face when analysing the Koran, such as receiving death threats and violence when questioning the divine origin of the holy book. (source)
Of course the very outrage sparked by his comments, indicated the very tendencies to eruptions of anger and intolerance. Instead of showing rationally, if it were possible, that the Koran does not have such invocations to perennial violence, Keyser Trad and other Muslim Rent a Crowd just kept on being outraged, giving no such proofs.
Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran: Dialogue with Islam? Not at this time.
Now the head of the Catholic Church’s Pontifical council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran,, has made similar comments. The Pontifical council in question has good diplomatic relations with all the other major faith representatives in the world, but as we all know, with Islam it is a different question. Here is what Cardinal Tauran says
...dialogue can take place “with some religions, yes. But with Islam, not at this time. Muslims do not accept discussion about the Koran, because they say it was written under the dictates of God. With such an absolutist interpretation, it’s difficult to discuss the contents of the faith.” (source)
It is significant that this recent comment comes from the highest levels of the church. For meanwhile while some starry eyed priests and nuns are running around to inter-faith fiestas, at higher levels of the church, there is a sober recognition that there is limited dialogue possible. While there may be some Islamic scholars who wish to have discussions, there has to be an acceptance that the Koran can be ‘discussed’ and interpreted.
Regarding Catholic-Muslim Dialogue Tauran also said:
Perhaps some of the rosy coloured glasses brigade, who know little of Islam and just want to sing ‘Give Peace a chance’ and ‘Kumbayah’ might take note of these more sober assessments. Those who have had more experience of Muslims know that the story is very different. Let us hope some facts intrude into what has been called the Mush of Civilisations
Regarding Catholic-Muslim Dialogue Tauran also said:
...in dialogue between believers, it is stated that what is good for one is good for the other. It should be explained to Muslims, for example, that if they are allowed to have Mosques in Europe, it is normal for churches to be allowed to be built in their countries (source )
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The timing of the 138 imams letter to the Christians is interesting considering the RCs 21st inter-faith peace conference was held in Naples this week. The Pope, I believe, gave his response to this letter -
"True faith of any sort, the Pope said, “is opposed to all forms of violence and to all abuses of religion as a pretext for violence.” He added that when “violence is justified in the name of God, it is important to reiterate that religions can never become vehicles of hatred, that never by invoking the name of God can evil and violence be justified.”"
Source
Of course, the Vatican has a much longer memory than the other Christian religions of what Islam really is.
"True faith of any sort, the Pope said, “is opposed to all forms of violence and to all abuses of religion as a pretext for violence.” He added that when “violence is justified in the name of God, it is important to reiterate that religions can never become vehicles of hatred, that never by invoking the name of God can evil and violence be justified.”"
Source
Of course, the Vatican has a much longer memory than the other Christian religions of what Islam really is.
1
October 27, 2007
Chrisse,
I wish the Eastern Orthodox Church would be a bit more outspoken about Islam.
After all they suffered so much the Mohammedan cult.
I wish the Eastern Orthodox Church would be a bit more outspoken about Islam.
After all they suffered so much the Mohammedan cult.
2
October 27, 2007
chrisse - the letter of the 138 immams is interesting indeed - if only it had been addressed to the Jews as well and offered dialogue and peace to them. Until the Jews, and all others are included in the offer of peace, it all rings hollow.
Dan Zaremba - especially ironic is the silence of the Russian Orthodox as regards Islam - I mean yes, they fight with the Chechens - but they do not say much about Islam itself - they are facing a real catastrophe - in that by about 2040 or earlier, the majority of men in the Russian army will be Muslim.
Dan Zaremba - especially ironic is the silence of the Russian Orthodox as regards Islam - I mean yes, they fight with the Chechens - but they do not say much about Islam itself - they are facing a real catastrophe - in that by about 2040 or earlier, the majority of men in the Russian army will be Muslim.
3
October 27, 2007
I think the Orthodox have suffered from isolation both from the Vatican (even though there were some ancient hissy fits there) and more importantly from each other. Some healing needs to be done; hopefully with Pope Benedict making moves to bringing the two arms of the Church together again, this will happen. Don't hold your breath though, apparently the Russian Orthodox guy refused to attend a conference because the Estonian Orthodox guy was there. Hmmmmm.
But also, for the Orthodox, they are more vulnerable to attack, so see the Vatican, as dangerous as that has proven to be, as the better voice right now.
Yes, I think our inter-faith christian groupies are misleading the imams that chistianity might be a good short term partner to destroy Israel. Pity for them Pope Benedict has been reaching out to the Jews. But also think it was a publicity stunt, they knew the Vatican would not come to the party. Seems to have died quickly though, must be that thing where there is no central authority in Islam to back their letter.
I'm frightened and concerned for Israel. It seems at the end of each American President's term, Israel has to be offered as the sacrificial lamb in the name of photo opportunity. No one can actually believe the Arab occupiers in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are anything but genuine.
Really though, it is the athiest secular progressives who are our biggest threat with their determination to re-engineer what it is to be human. People who do not reproduce, have no concern for the future they leave to those who follow. And they seem to have the upper hand in making public policy in the West.
But also, for the Orthodox, they are more vulnerable to attack, so see the Vatican, as dangerous as that has proven to be, as the better voice right now.
Yes, I think our inter-faith christian groupies are misleading the imams that chistianity might be a good short term partner to destroy Israel. Pity for them Pope Benedict has been reaching out to the Jews. But also think it was a publicity stunt, they knew the Vatican would not come to the party. Seems to have died quickly though, must be that thing where there is no central authority in Islam to back their letter.
I'm frightened and concerned for Israel. It seems at the end of each American President's term, Israel has to be offered as the sacrificial lamb in the name of photo opportunity. No one can actually believe the Arab occupiers in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are anything but genuine.
Really though, it is the athiest secular progressives who are our biggest threat with their determination to re-engineer what it is to be human. People who do not reproduce, have no concern for the future they leave to those who follow. And they seem to have the upper hand in making public policy in the West.
4
October 27, 2007
People who do not reproduce, have no concern for the future they leave to those who follow.
Crisse,
I think thre is nothing to add to this statement.
Brutally true
5
October 28, 2007
Chrisse - last year Pope Benedict met with the Patriarch of Constantinople- one of the photos showed them both holding han s and raising them in the air- incredible, when you think of the past. There are constant background negotiations on a visit to Russia who could not stomach Pope JPII because of his role in bringing down the Soviet Empire. They can do 'business' with the German Pope Benedict - the visit is being planned for within the next 1-2 years. It will be a historic moment.
Anon632- one can argue ideologies - but not demography - another elephant in the West's room at present is the low birth rate and the reasons for this ( abortion in all its forms) and a certain anti-child mentality which sees the young merely as burdens.
Anon632- one can argue ideologies - but not demography - another elephant in the West's room at present is the low birth rate and the reasons for this ( abortion in all its forms) and a certain anti-child mentality which sees the young merely as burdens.
6
October 28, 2007
Israel is the front line of defence of Western democracy. By helping to destroy Israel, Jew-haters and Jewish self-haters are bringing closer the creation of the world Caliphate. After that, they will have only one option; covert to Islam!
7
October 28, 2007
Faygale,
I think the entire Western radical movement (which unfortunately includes more than a fair share of Jewish self-haters)is set to use Islam as a mean to destroy our current order. Of course they wouldn't be able to control the Islamic beast for the same reason the Germans couldn't control the Russian revolution.
All too late.
We understand the situation Israel is in.
I think the entire Western radical movement (which unfortunately includes more than a fair share of Jewish self-haters)is set to use Islam as a mean to destroy our current order. Of course they wouldn't be able to control the Islamic beast for the same reason the Germans couldn't control the Russian revolution.
All too late.
We understand the situation Israel is in.
8
October 30, 2007
I haven't given up yet as I don't believe all our political, religious leaders and academics are completely stupid and suicidal and I'm confident the person in the street isn't that gullible either. The time is fast coming when we will say enough and demand the Islamic world allow full freedom of religion and equality to all....until then we should not let any mosques etc be built here and we must stop favouring and protecting Islam. As an atheist I'm encouraged by the comments from catholic leaders...we need them from all relgious leaders including Hindus, Buddhists, Ancestor Worshippers, Shinto, Daoists etc as Islam intends to destroy all others and create a braindead islamoculture! Imagine the incredible ugliness and monotony of an Islamic world-hell!
9
October 30, 2007
Dear sports, yep, ya always run into problems reading the Koran, if you have a brain, a sense of humour, and like most people, don't really give a shit one way or the other, regards Mad Mo, the filth of Islam or the Krazy Koran.
Sadly, many Muslims INSIST that everyone must be interested in their violence and boredom, or else. Sure, there's a lot of laughs, but the screaming...and the beards.
Funny, I thought. We must be at war but only the Islamist enemy has declared it ad nauseum. All the best, Colonel Robert Neville.
Sadly, many Muslims INSIST that everyone must be interested in their violence and boredom, or else. Sure, there's a lot of laughs, but the screaming...and the beards.
Funny, I thought. We must be at war but only the Islamist enemy has declared it ad nauseum. All the best, Colonel Robert Neville.
10
November 02, 2007
I've never understood what secular progressives hope to gain by supporting the Islamofascist world view. Under a democracy, which supports religious pluralism and equal rights for all, minorities, rights for women and homosexuals are protected.
If they succeed in destroying democracy, and replacing it with Islamofascism, it's not going to benefit them. Can't they understand that Islamofascists oppose secularism, civil liberties, including rights for gays, minorities etc - everything the secular progressives claim to support.
Why can't they see what is obvious to any normal person?
If they succeed in destroying democracy, and replacing it with Islamofascism, it's not going to benefit them. Can't they understand that Islamofascists oppose secularism, civil liberties, including rights for gays, minorities etc - everything the secular progressives claim to support.
Why can't they see what is obvious to any normal person?
11
November 04, 2007
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